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Hi, Spring fans! Welcome to another extra-special, extra-long installment of A Bootiful Podcast. In this episode, I talk to Spring Framework lead and #2 co-founder of Spring itself, the one, the only, the amazing Juergen Hoeller. We talk about his tenure as the longest and most prolific contributor to Spring; designing clean code; the early days of Spring the project; new features in Spring Framework 5.2; the role of Kotlin, Project Loom, Graal in the Spring ecosystem; Spring's role in the ecosystem; Java's place and possibilities; and so much more.